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От : Bud Frede 2:5075/128 17 сен 23 15:00:03
К : Dan Purgert 17 сен 23 22:03:06
Тема : Re: Ubuntu is fighting back!!
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@REPLYADDR Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com>
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Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.]
> On 2023-09-08, Big Al wrote:
>> On 9/8/23 08:18, this is what Henry Crun wrote:
>>>
>>> I am gradually moving laptop...netbook...eventully desktop from Ub.
>>> to MX. Very smooth learning curve, some advantages, some
>>> disadvantages. On Ubuntu I have been running for about year with no
>>> snap or flatpak. If only I could avoid the horror that is systemd. We
>>> are supposed to have choice, but to choose `no systemd` immediately
>>> implies `not Ubuntu` Pity `bout that.
>>>
>> Can you explain the issue with systemd? I think Linux Mint uses it
>> and I haven`t seen any apparent issues.
>
> It`s one of those things that, if it`s all you`ve used will probably not
> be all that easy to grasp (for example, my take with Pulse Audio was
> similar).
>
> Personally, I`m not much a fan of their binary logging, or how it can
> get in the way of applications like screen or tmux (or even nohup). The
> general pervasiveness and expansion of "systemd-anotherthingd" doesn`t
> really instill confidence either.
All logging is binary logging. How do you think data is represented in
memory or stored on disk?
It`s not as if plain text (ASCII) logfiles are printed with type on a
gutenberg press or something. They`re binary data in a certain format.
It`s true that journald uses a different format for its native logfiles,
and it requires special tools to read those files. However, plain ASCII
text files require special tools to read as well, it`s just that we`re
used to those tools and they have a long history in unix.
That`s not even a problem, because it`s very easy to use rsyslog or
syslog-ng to collect logs and output them to local plain text
logfiles. In fact, some distros have this setup by default. Besides
that, anybody doing this professionally is sending syslog to a remote,
central logserver or log collector.
>
> It`s either going to turn out to be one of those things that in 10 years
> we`ll collectively "forget" was a problem, either because there`s a
> schism in the general Linux community that`s too great to bridge; or
> because something soured distro decision makers against it enough that
> they`ve moved on.
It never really was a problem. Some people don`t like systemd, and
that`s fine. Having some variety in unix and Linux, and in unix and
linux users is a great thing IMO. I think the systemd "issue" has been
blown out of proportion by some people. In fact, I can`t believe we`re
still talking about it.
My career is currently centered around logging and logs. I hear
absolutely zero about any supposed problems with systemd/journald. It`s
not a topic of conversation, it`s never mentioned at all, and it`s
just. not. an. issue.
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