----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@MSGID:
<b991ed8c-eccd-480b-b5fd-1f091c732d8cn@googlegroups.com> 2f5cce30
@REPLY: 1@dont-email.me> 19cf1f1a
@REPLYADDR Peter T. Daniels
<petertdaniels@gmail.com>
@REPLYTO 2:5075/128 Peter T. Daniels
@CHRS: CP866 2
@RFC: 1 0
@RFC-References:
<139c7c98-d56b-43b2-b39d-161874fa2acdn@googlegroups.com> <e47eb255-f813-47a3-8e86-bfab30c2f751n@googlegroups.com>
<dcc167bb-bf00-4ab2-b5d1-25b51bfc140en@googlegroups.com> <0gf2gi59hc26filpejook8b3o8euf5vbtp@4ax.com>
<21bedecd-65c8-4618-bde6-bf2a41264fe9n@googlegroups.com> 1@dont-email.me>
@RFC-Message-ID:
<b991ed8c-eccd-480b-b5fd-1f091c732d8cn@googlegroups.com>
@TZUTC: -0700
@PID: G2/1.0
@TID: FIDOGATE-5.12-ge4e8b94
On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 6:01:07 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 14/09/2023 4:24 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 12:43:57 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >> Tue, 12 Sep 2023 13:57:52 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
> >> <
petert...@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >>> On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:21:35?PM UTC-4, Dingbat wrote:
> >>>> On Saturday, September 2, 2023 at 4:54:33?PM UTC+5:30, bruce
bowser wrote:
> >>>>> This Is the Most Mispronounced State in the U.S.
> >>>>> Yahoo News - Sept 28, 2020
--https://www.yahoo.com/video/most-mispronounced-state-u-182706349.html#:~:text=
Illinois%20has%20a%20silent%20%22s,Mispronounced%20City%20in%20the%20U.S.
> >>>> Illinois and Detroit were French spellings. Ois was an
adjectival suffix. Is there
> >>>> a correct way to deviate from French pronunciation? How must Anglophones
> >>>> pronounce Malinois?
> >>>
is the expected French spelling of the local word
for `people`,
> >>> eleniwa. Many Native American tribe names used in English are simply
> >>> the word for "people."
> >> No: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois#Etymology
> > Ok, "citation needed" knows more about the Algonquian languages
> > than Leonard Bloomfield and Charles F. Hockett.
> >
> The citations are there at the end of the paragraph:
The footnote ast the top consists of "[citation needed]."
> [18] Callary, Edward (2008). Place Names of Illinois. University of
> Illinois Press. p. 169.
>
> [19] Costa, David J. (January 2007). "Three American Placenames:
> Illinois" (PDF). Society for the Study of the Indigenous Languages of
> the Americas Newsletter. 25 (4): 9-12.
>
> The latter seems to be the primary source of the revised etymology.
> Costa`s article is actually online:
https://web.archive.org/web/20110716151840/http://myaamia.strackattack.com/Other
Files/CostaNewsletter.pdf#page=9
[curiously, that opened to the first page rather than to p.9]
Costa dismisses a whole lot of red herrings, and does not refute
anything I said: " is the expected French spelling of the local
[I don`t know where the Ottawa were; not necessarily where the modern
city is] word for `people`, eleniwa. [Costa seems to think that the Jesuits
were using some sort of IPA and intentionally failed to notate the length of
an [e:].) Many Native American tribe names used in English are simply
the word for "people." [You`re not going to deny that, are you?]
> The same issue of the newsletter, as it happens, contains an obituary
> and tributes to William Bright. Bright`s Native American Placenames
> seems to accept Costa`s account.
(An earlier version, of course.) He has no explanation for the loss of the -k.
> I didn`t see a mention of Bloomfield or Hockett in any of this. The
> people cited for the old (incorrect) etymology are:
My term paper for Hockett`s Algonquian seminar was a word-index to
Bloomfield`s Algonquian sketch, as reprinted in Hockett`s *A Leonard
Bloomfield Anthology* (which surely is on the shelf of every Cornellian).
Unfortunately I do not know where my copy is. Hockett told me he
duplicated it and distributed it to the Algonquianist community, so I lit it
as my first publication (1971). So maybe Ives Goddard or Victor Golla has
a copy.
Years later I asked the editor of *Anthropological Linguistics* whether
it was publishable, and he claimed it wasn`t needed because computers.
Maybe I should have asked at *IJAL*.
I suppose you`re going to pull a Cooper and claim that because I can`t
give you a page and line reference, that doesn`t count.
> F.W. Hodge, Handbook of American Indians North of Mexico, Volume 1 (1911)
> George R.Stewart, Names on the Land (1945)
Pre-Bloomfield. Feh.
--- G2/1.0
* Origin: usenet.network (2:5075/128)
SEEN-BY: 5001/100 5005/49 5015/255 5019/40 5020/715
848 1042 4441 12000
SEEN-BY: 5030/49 1081 5075/128
@PATH: 5075/128 5020/1042 4441