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On 15/09/2023 3:18 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 6:01:07 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
>> On 14/09/2023 4:24 a.m., Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 12:43:57 AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>>>> Tue, 12 Sep 2023 13:57:52 -0700 (PDT): "Peter T. Daniels"
>>>> <petert...@gmail.com> scribeva:
>>>>> On Tuesday, September 12, 2023 at 2:21:35?PM UTC-4, Dingbat wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, September 2, 2023 at 4:54:33?PM UTC+5:30, bruce
bowser wrote:
>
>>>>>>> This Is the Most Mispronounced State in the U.S.
>>>>>>> Yahoo News - Sept 28, 2020
--https://www.yahoo.com/video/most-mispronounced-state-u-182706349.html#:~:text=
Illinois%20has%20a%20silent%20%22s,Mispronounced%20City%20in%20the%20U.S.
>>>>>> Illinois and Detroit were French spellings. Ois was an
adjectival suffix. Is there
>>>>>> a correct way to deviate from French pronunciation? How must Anglophones
>>>>>> pronounce Malinois?
>>>>> is the expected French spelling of the local word for `people`,
>>>>> eleniwa. Many Native American tribe names used in English are simply
>>>>> the word for "people."
>>>> No: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois#Etymology
>>> Ok, "citation needed" knows more about the Algonquian languages
>>> than Leonard Bloomfield and Charles F. Hockett.
>>>
>> The citations are there at the end of the paragraph:
>
> The footnote ast the top consists of "[citation needed]."
>
>> [18] Callary, Edward (2008). Place Names of Illinois. University of
>> Illinois Press. p. 169.
>>
>> [19] Costa, David J. (January 2007). "Three American Placenames:
>> Illinois" (PDF). Society for the Study of the Indigenous Languages of
>> the Americas Newsletter. 25 (4): 9-12.
>>
>> The latter seems to be the primary source of the revised etymology.
>> Costa`s article is actually online:
>
https://web.archive.org/web/20110716151840/http://myaamia.strackattack.com/Other
Files/CostaNewsletter.pdf#page=9
>
> [curiously, that opened to the first page rather than to p.9]
>
> Costa dismisses a whole lot of red herrings, and does not refute
> anything I said: "
is the expected French spelling of the local
> [I don`t know where the Ottawa were; not necessarily where the modern
> city is] word for `people`, eleniwa. [Costa seems to think that the Jesuits
> were using some sort of IPA and intentionally failed to notate the length of
> an [e:].) Many Native American tribe names used in English are simply
> the word for "people." [You`re not going to deny that, are you?]
>
>> The same issue of the newsletter, as it happens, contains an obituary
>> and tributes to William Bright. Bright`s _Native American Placenames_
>> seems to accept Costa`s account.
>
> (An earlier version, of course.) He has no explanation for the loss of the -k.
>
>> I didn`t see a mention of Bloomfield or Hockett in any of this. The
>> people cited for the old (incorrect) etymology are:
>
> My term paper for Hockett`s Algonquian seminar was a word-index to
> Bloomfield`s Algonquian sketch, as reprinted in Hockett`s *A Leonard
> Bloomfield Anthology* (which surely is on the shelf of every Cornellian).
> Unfortunately I do not know where my copy is. Hockett told me he
> duplicated it and distributed it to the Algonquianist community, so I lit it
> as my first publication (1971). So maybe Ives Goddard or Victor Golla has
> a copy.
>
> Years later I asked the editor of *Anthropological Linguistics* whether
> it was publishable, and he claimed it wasn`t needed because computers.
> Maybe I should have asked at *IJAL*.
>
> I suppose you`re going to pull a Cooper and claim that because I can`t
> give you a page and line reference, that doesn`t count.
>
>> F.W. Hodge, Handbook of American Indians North of Mexico, Volume 1 (1911)
>> George R.Stewart, Names on the Land (1945)
>
> Pre-Bloomfield. Feh.
>
Bloomfield`s Algonquian Sketch (1946) is available online thanks to the
University of Manitoba.
https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~oxfordwr/bloomfield1946/
I could not find "Illinois" or "eleniwa" in the text.
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