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@MSGID:
<c77e7947-3349-4ab5-a2e5-fdd9682b474en@googlegroups.com> 0e3109ac
@REPLY: 1@dont-email.me> 58ce0c71
@REPLYADDR Daud Deden <daud.deden@gmail.com>
@REPLYTO 2:5075/128 Daud Deden
@CHRS: CP866 2
@RFC: 1 0
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<j8jrgitqbe4ine08vohr8avafes2rcldcg@4ax.com> <388eee1d-c597-4d46-9a56-beb310567279n@googlegroups.com>
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@RFC-Message-ID:
<c77e7947-3349-4ab5-a2e5-fdd9682b474en@googlegroups.com>
@TZUTC: -0700
@PID: G2/1.0
@TID: FIDOGATE-5.12-ge4e8b94
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:38:59 AM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> On 24/09/2023 2:13 p.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 4:12:15 PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
> >> On 24/09/2023 7:51 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-4, Tim Lang wrote:
> >>>> On 23.09.2023 05:47, Daud Deden wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Friday, September 22, 2023 at 1:23:18 PM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Wed, 20 Sep 2023 07:53:32 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
> >>>>>> <
daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
> >>>>>>> German: immer (room is zimmer)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> German "immer" means always, and Zimmer has nothing to do with it.
> >>>>>> Are you confusing this with the English word "inner", or with the
> >>>>>> German word "innen"?
> >>>> BTW: inner is German as well; e.g. innerhalb (which in Swiss
> >>>> German (a.k.a. Alemanian) is also called innert, roughly meaning
> >>>> "during"); Innerei,-en ("innards, viscera"); Inneres.
> >>>>
> >>>> ("interior; inside; inner")
> >>>>
> >>>> Example for the usage of German Innen- and Inner- in "interior
> >>>> ministry / dept. of domestic affairs": Innenministerium and
> >>>> also Ministerium f?r innere Angelegenheiten; Ministerium des
> >>>> Innern; Ministerium f?r Inneres. And there is a third synonym
> >>>> used in certain circumstances: binnen. E.g. Binnenwirtschaft
> >>>> "home/domestic economy"; Binnenschifffahrt etc all in the
> >>>> sense of "interior/home". In low German binnen un buten means
> >>>> in standard German innen & aussen/aussen. (Compare Dutch binnen
> >>>> & buiten.)
> >>>>
> >>>> tv section of the channel Radio Bremen
> >>>> (the region is part of the area of the low German dialects)
> >>>> <
https://www.butenunbinnen.de/>
> >>>>
> >>>> *
> >>>>
> >>>> immer ("always") and Zimmer (room, chamber) aren`t akin.
> >>>> Immer is assumed to have been from thecombination je + mehr
> >>>> (in the forms of the "old high German" era of German).
> >>>>
> >>>> Zimmer had (in the old high German era) its inception as zimbar, akin
> >>>> to English timber (and having this meaning, i.e., timber/lumber).
> >>>>
> >>>> (Zimmer - by meaning and form - might seem akin to chamber < Fr. chambre
> >>>> < Lat. camera "arched roof" < Greek kamara "vault". But it seems that
> >>>> there was no kamara <=> zimbar link, although both referred to aspects
> >>>> of house constructions or structures.)
> >>>>> No, immerse @Egl via LLtn immersioner, to dip into, which would appear
> >>>>> to fit with zimmer. >But not in this case. Thanks for checking.
> >>>> It can`t, since there is no word *immer- here, but the preposition
> >>>> in + the verb mergere => immergere, immersus est => ... French/Engl
> >>>> immers- (-e; -ion).
> >>>>
> >>>> Tim
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>> Zimbar ~ barrel-like? ~ chamber of staves/sticks/saplings
> >>> Kamar @Mly: room (via Hindi or Persian?)
> >>> Kamara @Grk: vault
> >>>
> >>> (Pieces fit together to make) a barrel/chamber/ark/basket/tub
> >>> Couple, zuber-zimbar, teba-gopher-kohvar-kufa(rigolu)
> >>> Xyuambuatl chamber(ed), wamba(ll)/(wom)bel(l/t/le/ly), zimbar
> >>>
> >>> I`m not entirely rejecting immer & zimmer linkage:
> >>>
> >>> Immer = always ~ all ways around (360°) a dome hut (inside?)
> >>> Umwelt = surrounding environment (outside?)
> >>> (Xyuam)buatl birth/vault/bottle
> >>>
> >>> Innate, inert opposites of ate, ert?
> >>>
> >>> DD
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Innate < Lat inn?tus `inborn` < in- (inside) + n?tus `born` (ultimately
> >> from the prolific *gen- root)
> >>
> >> Inert < Lat iners, inert- `unskilful, inactive, idle` < in- (not) + art-
> >> (ars, art- `skill, occupation etc.`)
> >
> > Thanks. I didn`t know innate linked to natal, nor inert to art.
> >
> > Seems that in- (inside) is ancient via en(du/do) and ante-
{pre-gn-ant before birth in?}
> > while in- (not) is more recent derived from anti-, perhaps
from a different dialect source.
> >
> In- (not) is just [n?] (syllabic n), which becomes Latin in-, Germanic
> un-, Greek and Sanskrit a-. It`s the minimal form of *ne, from whence
> come all those negative n- words in IE languages.
Thanks. Then there`s the im- which negates, I guess a variant of in-.
And special cases, such as unmeasurable & immeasurable, probably
reflecting recent dialect differentiation & specializations.
In Malay, tidak = no, bukan = not so.
In Mandarin, good, not good, very good = hau, bu hau, hung hau.
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